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  CSPAN    U.S. House of Representatives    News/Business.  

    July 4, 2011
    5:00 - 8:00pm EDT  

subject of terrorism in general have said those trial transcripts quarter an enormous treasure trove of information about al qaeda and 9/11. if that information had been more widely available and if that information had been more of a part of the public conversation, perhaps the country would have taken that issue more seriously in the subsequent years leading up to 9/11. yes, there are security concerns but i think that public education can be a security the she can be a benefit as well as a risk. >> they are all talking about the unusual case.
we are talking about the o.j. simpson case or any of the other average cases. an understanding of our justice system. if what we're seeking is greater intelligence, that plays out through the average and ordinary. that is the garden variety cases that come before the court. when we are talking about federal courts we're screening out huge portions of the garden variety. we have to think about the context in which we increase the public's understanding of the courts, a judicial system. i don't know if we're talking about a system in which to its function like c-span so there would be a continuous running loop of the courtroom today.
lot of what people learn about the justice system when they watched trials is actually wrong. the decisions that someone makes about what is going to appear on television, which will be featured during a particular time. it seems to me that this has an enormous amount of power. management is seeking an audience and ratings. i feel less comfortable about a situation in which management or a tv station has the ability to select those cases that they think that the audience will want to see. are we talking about access in which the cameras are running
and this is in a particular court room or are we talking about the selector feature piece. >> the ninth circuit has its own youtube channel. the ninth circuit does report the video. they put it on the internet for everyone but --
>> i don't know of any other mechanism in which to decide which cases the televised and which don't. court tv, which was a television station built entirely around trials through complicated corporate mergers and what not, it became part of my company, time warner. there is no such channel as court tv anymore. this is something called in session which is part of headline news. . i think one of the problems that came up with cameras in the courtroom as a long-term enterprises that the corporate interest in a regular diet of
trials is small. this is not yet been a long term success. the case the anthony case has been a hit. i think the most important case was the public recognition and in paris of dna evidence as an important tool in law enforcement -- and importance of dna evidence as an important tool for law enforcement.
we have people who know about dna evidence and in some respects expect it. i wish the public were interested in nothing but high- minded cases. i also live in the real world and i don't see any alternative. >> you said that the public interest in trials is small. >> the interest in race, sex, murder, child abduction is very big. that is why we know about the case the anthony case and trial. what are we trying to accomplish? are we trying to feed a market and have our cameras in the courtroom to satisfy the public.
the purposes are you going to get to the right place. if you're concerned about transparency and secrecy, everyone has mentioned a variety of things that need to happen. we have did be really careful about there is cameras in the court room which is really about transparency. >> we should not ignore the demise of the traditional
newspaper and the beat reporter. he is long gone. before long, newspapers will be gone. >> are the speakers on in the aisles? the microphones. we will find a good question out there for the panel. you need to go for a microphone and make sure they are on. >> maryland is the only state that has an absolute statued --
statutory bar on the protests coverage of criminal trials. the antecedent of that was a case in the 1920's presided over by a famous judge. the advantage of an absolute bar is found in the fact that same and money are hydraulic courses. once again it -- once you get a discretion, the bar becomes relatively meaningless. the other matter that is worth considering was the point that the professor -- made and that is the difference between the -- and chandler cases was the difference between a highly
publicized case. if you read this carefully, chandlers and not have had what happened. in the mass media rules the country. if you want the rule to be further diluted, i cannot think of a better way of doing so then allow which trials are televised, which are in the suns, who the surrounding commentators are.
there is no better way of inflaming public opinion. the ultimate judgment is going to be counteracted by a public referendum. many of us believe that this should not be opened or crack because of the temptations of fame and money. >> is anyone to comment on this? >> i think the argument that the press might not do a good job is not an argument that is supported by our traditions or the first amendment. you could make the argument on
how we cover presidential campaigns. the only cover the conflicts, the parts of the debate when there is conflict. i'm sorry, that is up to us, not up to you. if people don't want to watch, they're not going to watch. the decision to cut off access to this important part in life and american government is the wrong remedy for coverage that you think is bad. >> before becoming a trial judge and federal court, i was one of the state courts in virginia. i was appalled about the way
that the television networks covered the trials. all they did was when the news was on they spent 30 or 40 seconds and they showed the defendant walking into the courtroom and may be showed a lawyer during closing arguments. it was not educational. i think this is a total waste of time. >> any comment on that? >> is anyone have a question that is not on cameras in the court room? >> i wanted to see change the subject to the issue of confidentiality. i practice of law in virginia
and i have been doing that for about 35 years. i have never had the experience of bargaining using confidentiality or a sealed order as a sword. i've encountered a defendant saying that if you would like this settlement, you must enter into this confidentiality order. i'm confronted with the ethical issues of do i believe the issue of open this year for public concern which is greater than my interest in my specific client in getting this case settled. wouldn't this problem be easily settled by a simple rule or statute that says that no filed case might be settled of the
confidential melete order in the absence of the motion showing a compelling interest that is private to these clients as opposed to a public interest and to take care of the problem that judge anderson mentioned. no consideration will be paid between the parties for confidentiality or protective order agreements. thank you. >> i was not just casting aspersions, i was trying to be equally offensive to everyone. >> why do need a rule? >> they appointed for life.
you're sitting there, the lawyers say that we have this case settled. an absolute prerequisite is that you sign off on this order. the judge is under enormous pressure to go along. if you don't go along, you are inviting a three-week trial. you might be the ninth of the plaintiff of the settlement. that is the test here as to why we need a rule. we will not settle any settlements. the judge can abrogate any rule on the books. there is a giant loophole. what we really have is a culture that we don't like secrecy in
settlements. state secrets, not problem. >> the question i have it is it better to have market driven information available to the public or is it better to have no information available to the public except fiction? >> i don't accept the premise of the question. >> that is because you are a law professor. there is no public access to criminal trial, they are held in public buildings that the public can come to. they should be covered by reporters.
there was a time when there was a reporter assigned and so you could presume that in your newspaper, if your town still has one, you would have multiple accounts of the trial. we have a media problem, no question about it. we don't have a no access issue. this is not a constitutional question in the sense that we of cut off access to the trials. we have a balance of interest. there is desired for openness and transparency. the desire to have the public know what is happening. a lot of mischief, including mr. if by judges, happens in the course of trials. actually, cameras might be helpful for some of that.
the problem is that there are other competing interests. i am simply suggesting there is a whole other set of issues that have to do with whether or not if we enter a path of inviting further disinformation and lack of knowledge about our justice system. by having cameras in the court room in a way that it is appeals to the -- interest of the public and the dollars and cents interest of the television network switches to focus on those cases that involve interracial murder, child abduction, high-profile individuals accused of crimes. it will not tell the public a good deal about the justice system except at the extremes. this will reinforce certain ideas about the justice system out there, for example the idea that our children are in imminent danger from a child of
a doctor. frankly, much of this is driven by what we see on television. i am only suggesting to leave those decisions with the market was essentially puts criminal trials on the same basis as the kardashian sisters is problematic. we have to think about what we want to accomplish by this. if we want to have a c-span system where the public gets the unpacked his exposure to a criminal trial. that might resolve some of the issue but this will not resolve the safety issues and so forth that were mentioned. we should not pretend that turning this over to networks who are seeking to gain money will make the public more aware, more intelligent about the justice system. >> i would like to chime in.
if this is the only purpose of the broadcasting and entertainment where the primary purpose is entertainment, then we need to examine how we are delivering this information to the public. i think that court television was mentioned, i think that is fabulous. i can raise my hand and tell you that i don't know who casey anthony is. there is a station that you eat their -- that you only see casey or caylee. going back and forth, you have to deal with what appears to be histrionic entertainment.
we need to look at a more toned down delivery system like court television which could be tailored to serve a truly educational purpose. >> i have said my piece. >> this has been a very stimulating discussion. we certainly think each of you. unfortunately, the morning form must now conclude. i asked you in the audience to join me in expressing our appreciation to the days panelists for expressing their insight. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> a look at the work of the
101st airborne division which is located along the afghanistan border with pakistan. then a discussion about the 2012 presidential campaign with a focus on the grounds an early primary states as well as the republican presidential field. >> today, the dalai lama and vincent harding talk about non violence. they spoke to more than 10,000 people at the university of arkansas discussing osama bin laden's death, the nuremberg trials, the execution of saddam hussein, and the death penalty. >> in the 20th-century, the number of people were killed and three violence, over 200 million. that problem must be solved.
there is also exploitation and we should lay down the seat of hatred course watched this discussion this evening at 6:30 on c-span. what's it look back at president nixon's foreign-policy. members of his administration and his son-in-law discussed topics including communism in china, invading north vietnam and the war in the middle east. >> the discussion in the newspapers were nixon's secret plan for peace. rockefeller did not think that nixon had a plan.
he comes in after a hard day campaigning and the like to listen to tchaikovsky. should ask him or not. well, i'm almost a member for family. mr. nixon, what is your plan? i'm going to go to beijing, i'm going to go to moscow, and that is how we will deal with this. >> a free lance journalist was stationed with the 101st airborne in afghanistan. he was patrolling with them and in gauging insecurity. the president announced his plan to bring 10,000 troops home from afghanistan.
>> this depends on where you are. my experience is mostly in the east, i only have little experience in the south. i and a stand that there is a lot of large-scale open combat -- i understand that there is a lot of large scale open combat. in the east, the kind of violence you place depends on where you are. there used to be how lot of the problems with transportation. i would call these bombing galleries. a large coalition presence is trying hard to lock those down and order to protect kabul.
there are thousands of these ied's a year. as you move closer to the border, you had southeast towards pakistan, the threat changes. there are no roads, the train is really rough. the coalition troops and the taliban moved on foot. the coalition also has helicopters that can get them between mountain tops. they would be back to walking around on foot. these are law that useful. -- a lot less useful. they are used for blowing up vehicles. in some places, you see more small arms.
this sort of looks like a world war ii street battle on a smaller scale. guys running around with rifles and tossing grenades, things like that. on the coalition side, there is a significant air power aspect of it as well. the tactical security threats to nato troops. >> this is located in the far most peace which is a ride along the border. this is a critical area for cross border infiltration as well as a historic avenue and the movement of supplies.
>> in terms of the risk to u.s. troops, how would you characterize this? >> i would characterize this as high as venture. there is a significant influx of insurgent fighters to the area. >> we are prepared to go on a mission, tell me about that and what it is for. >> this is a standard reconnaissance mission. we're going in there to see what it looks like. >> what are the major challenges? >> the major challenges are the terrain which is extreme and very difficult to move. the people there have seen the
coalition presence. >> what you hope to achieve with the mission? >> to achieve this situation and the situational awareness so that we can continue our operations there to route out and clear insurgents from out the insurgent presence. >> how can you tell that you have receded -- you have succeeded? >> generally, the number of attacks in the area. we receive a lot of indirect artillery and rocket fire. we did these numbers to decrease, and also the amount of ied making material we see farther in afghanistan, it all crosses the border here. we can have a significant
impact on insurgent activity throughout the region. >> richard? [unintelligible] >> on april 4 and april 5 in paktika province, i was with the u.s. 101st airborne division. the target is this isolated mountain district on the border. for a long time, there were no troops at all. a parachute militant -- regiment lau. the eastern border district has not seen help in 20 years. from the first air assault, the american troops would help up on the mountaintop, and start looking around. looked down into the valleys,
into the roads, any compounds the they could say, and gain a sense of who lives here. what is the pattern of life? is the taliban actually there? can we draw them out? for two days in april, we camped out on those mountaintops, and the villagers all us. -- saw us. the taliban launched a couple of rockets. there was a minor skirmish. no one was hurt on either side. it is a long-neglected district. >> [unintelligible] see that draw right there? >> this is east patika, bermel
valley. we are here to stop incoming insurgent traffic coming in from afghanistan into pakistan. into kabul, the other major cities. this is the point where we fight them off and keep them from going further into the country. there are several mean that routes through all these areas. that come from pakistan into afghanistan. most of them are used for commerce. they trade a lot back and forth here. they are moving farther into kabul or other major cities. they use this to bring in other weapons and equipment to attack coalition forces. this is the biggest city in the area. it has the most populous. this is a center for trading
and, in the area. paktika province province -- places like paktika province, where nato has not had much of a presence until recently, these are the border provinces that have not had nato troops until the past year. the population is not very friendly to the coalition. so, the population will harbor fighters, all will harbert weapons for them, and is aware of -- will harbor weapons for them, and is aware of taliban movements. they will target in a sense the civilian population. they do not started them with violence. but you have to go visiting houses. you have to go to the compounds. you have to march out and start knocking on doors, demanding to be let in, and basically
demanded "if you do not let newtonian, nato will break the door down. -- if you do not let nato in, nato will break the door down." you going in and you start asking the hard questions. who has been here? where are the military age men? what is in that box over there? >> [unintelligible] [dog barking] course there is somebody in their. he came out. -- there is somebody in their. -- in there. >> [speaking foreign language]
>> is anyone answering? >> do you want us to go in, sir? [inaudible] >> [speaking foreign language] >> we are trying to give them more time. [indistinct conversations]
[dogs barking]
>> who is the elder here. -- who is the elder here? who is the village elder? >> [speaking foreign language] >> ok. i will be sure to look him up and talk to him. >> [speaking foreign language] >> a lot of patrols in places like patika, it ends up being an
endless process of searching scores of identical places. you knock on the door, you go in, there is a locked box in this room, like you find out what is in the boxes, they will not tell you, you cut them open. 99% in the cases, no one in the house will say anything. you can find no active taliban. but nato can over here the taliban radio traffic. they will move out. they will try to move. it will try to move things they have stored to keep them out of nato's path. it is a cat and mouse game. the plainfield is the homes of afghan civilians -- the playing field is the homes of afghan civilians living in these places. >> some of the guys came up.
we talked to them. i think what we are going to do, we are going to post support units year, a kind of leader rabb. -- loiter around. especially back. i think it will be 15:30. >> let's go ahead and break down and get on the road. >> the high ground is over their. we will go back. >> ok. >> i do not think by any metric anyone argues there are fewer attacks and less violence in afghanistan now than there has ever been. the number of bombs exploded, the number of civilians killed, the number of nato troops killed has only risen steadily throughout the war.
so, the only way you can argue security is better is by interpreting conditions on the ground differently. yes, you could say, there are more afghan troops and police on the ground and tornado police and contractors. there are more coalition people on the ground now than ever. that is one way to interpret what security means, simply having a presence. but more of them are dying. more of them are fighting. the taliban is not getting any smaller or any less active by all accounts. whether this increase in number of afghans are doing of good jobs by afghan troops and afghan police is hard to say. is still fairly rare for afghan security forces to go out on their own security patrols. hard to say what is
coming, in afghanistan. because we do not know what the war is going to look like when there are fewer and nato troops and more afghan troops taking over the day-to-day responsibilities for security. >> freelance video journalist david axe was embedded with be in nato forces in january and february of this year. to see this video again or others like it, you can go to our website -- click on video library and type "david axe" in the search box. >> the senate was scheduled to take a break for the holiday,
but majority leader reid decided to have the senate come back tomorrow. tomorrow, a vote on moving the with the resolution for work at 5:00 -- for work at 5:00. the house returns on wednesday at 2:00 eastern. the most work this week will be on defense spending for 2012. also, the national flood insurance program. neihaus is live on c-span and the senate on c-span2. >> today on c-span. the dalai lama and martin luther king's speech writer speak on non-violence. discuss osama bin laden's death, the nuremberg trials, the execution of saddam hussein, and the death penalty. >> the number of people who have
killed their violence -- through violence number the millions. that problem must stop. that action, and also exploitation, i think this lays down the seeds of hatred. these things i feel. >> watch this discussion tonight at 6:30 eastern on c-span. tonight on c-span, a look back at president nixon's foriegn policy. members of his administration and the president's son-in-law discuss topics including communism in china, invading north vietnam, and the 1967 war in the middle east. >> the discussion then in the newspapers were "nixon's secret
plans for peace." what was it? of course, he never talked about a. nixon could say something to expose what his plan was. most people did not think he had a plan. i would be in the library waiting for trisha to change her clothes. we were going up the bank comes in after a hard day of campaigning. he is relaxing, listening to chekhov's. should i ask him or not. well, i am almost a member of the family. mr. nixon, what is your plan? "i am going to go to peking. that is how we're going to bring about peace in vietnam and around the world." >> what this tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span he been -- watched this tonight at 8:00 eastern on he ban -- eastern on c-span. >> the latest events from the campaign trail, information on the candidates, twitter and
facebook updates, and links to c-span media partners in the early primary and caucus states. visit us at mpaign2012. >> now a discussion on the 2012 presidential campaign with a look at battleground states as well as the republican presidential field. we spoke with kathy kiley for 40 minutes. "washingn journal" continues. host: captain connelly joining asks -- kathy kiely and joining us. what makes this state a battleground state? guest: it's a battleground state going to be close, if
it's going to be a tossup. winner-take-all in those states. so those are the states where the candidates concentrate. host: we will see as the battleground states, up in the general election and those for primary. what about theepublican primary? guest: four places or five places for the republica primary. thosetates will be voting early. iowa, the first votes of the presidential contest will be cast sometime in early next year. new hampshire will be next after iowa with the first primary. then we will have saw carolina, nevada, and most likely florida. there is a perennial
battleground states of florida. so that it will be very closely watched. albee's early contests are very important because they provide momentum to the winners. -- all of these early contests states are very important because they provide momentum to the winners. host: " if one candidate says i know i cannot win in iowa, so i will put my resources elsewhere? what does that mean for resources? guest: several candidates have indicated that they likely will not plan to go to iowa. that's questionable with mitt romney, the seeming front runner. jon huntsman has made it clear that he will not compete in iowa. he could be a formidable challenger. the question is will that
steepen the victory for the people that come out of that state doing well or not? what inevitably happens in iowa is the person who comes out of that race comes out with a lot of momentum. what is important is not just the perception among voters, but the perception among donors. so what you will see is people cashing in on those victories. i think iowa is an important state no matter to compete staircase. how important it will be remains toe seen. host: kathy kiely is the politics managing editor. the numbers to call -- a story in "to "the huffington post" recently --
how does that play out in terms of candidates figuring out their strategy and carrying their message? guest: it plays out because this is one of the controversial aspects of our electi system. we use an electoral college system which makes certain states very important, states where the candidates know the
battle will be closely fought. other states become flight over territory and are neglected as a result. -- fly-over territory. a lot of these states tend to be diverse states, s. industrial states have had a harder time getting paid attention to early in the campaign because they don't figure in the primary -- early primary contests. i think in the general election you have a lot of states where the voters will never see the candidates. that is a shame. host: let's look at one of the recent folks to get in on the run for president. representative thaddeus mccotter, a michigan replican. here's an image of him playing the guitar to the delight of his
supporters. that was shortly after announcing. any input on what he brings to the race or how candidates like this contributed? guest: he is from one of those states that has apparently been ignored. michigan has tried for a number of cycles to get moved up in t presidential sweepstakes because it really is a post-industrial state. i'm from pennsylvania, so i know little about this, talking about an area of the country that has been struggling for decades to counter the effects or recover from the effects of globalization and changing technology. thaddeus mccotter certainly can represent that and give voice to that. he is a conservative. think the question for republicans of that type, is
whether their enthusiasm will end up sabotaging them. you have a number of candidates like michelle bachmann and thaddeus mccotter urbana and herman cain to some extent, rick perry, the governor of texas thinking about entering, sarah palin considering entering as well, and they all appeal to a similar constituency. if i were mitt romney, i think i would be rooting for as many of them to get in as ssible. host: let's go to oklahoma city, oklahoma, the democrat line. caller: i have a question for the lady. you have mike huckabee, you have sarah palin, and donald trump's. these republicans were telling nussbaum how bad america was -- or telling us how bad america
was. these people have the abilityo do something about it as president. so why don't they run? donald trump sold out the tea party for $60 million. if america is in such bad shape, where is mike huckabee? he wanted more money from fox news. where is sarah palin with all of her mouth? ump?e is donald tro he would rather make $60 million with this show -- with his show. they talk about how bad president obama is, then those guys with the ability to do something sell them out for money.
guest: one of my colleagues had a piece last week in which he who said it'sununu like a lot of f almost being a presidential candidate because you get all the attention without the scrutiny. i think we have had a number who have had a lot of fun this summer. question is how serious they are. certainly, we spoke with mike huckabee earlier this year. i'd think that he did give it a serious look, but he is doing very well financially. this is a guy who grew a poor. he decided not to make the run. donaldson decided not to make the run. no one knows how serious he was. no one knows. he keeps holding out the possibility he could run as an independent and not as a republican, so he continues to
have fun. sarah palin, we don't know. it does give people a lot of attention. once you jump into the race, people like me start to ask a lot of questions about your record and start turning over a lot of rocks, so it becomes less fun. host: managing editor of politics for "national journal." she has covered every presidential election since 1980. bob in oregon. caller: the conservative wing of the republican party branching off, i see that happen if they agree to the debt ceing vote. and a potential for hillary clinton to enter the race in order to savthe party if things look really bad for the democrats. guest: i think the debt ceiling negotiations are one of the most interesting things going on in washington today. in part because the tea party
wing of the republican party is quite strong and i can think it makes it very unpdictable what's going to happen. the teay don't know how party will react to whatever kind of deal is cut. one has to assume there will be a deal cut. it's very unclear. as for libya clinton, there has been mortalk about her becoming head of the world bank -- ask for hillary clinton. i think that she does not want to run for president again. she has been pretty ematic about that. host: one of our callers on twitter asks -- guest: i want to add something to the last caller's question first. i should've thought of this.
mrs. clinton's husband, bill clinton, was at a forum in aspen when he was interviewed by another one of my colleagues. bill clinton said hehought president obama would win reelection, so he is certainly not stumping for his wife, if that's any clue. so i think that pretty much solace is that rumor. to the question about third- party candidates, yes, obviously, a lot of people. the 2000 election was the way it did because of ralph nader's presence in the race. anything in a closely not- fought election by a third- party candidate can alter things in ways we cannot predict. host: is there anyone besides donald trump who might be something to watch?
guest: too early to know. we don't see a lot of talk out there because of the ralph nader experience. you have this grass roots movement, the tea party movement, that feels very strongly about its ideas and ideals and already h shown a propensity for challenging the republican party establishment. so i would look in that area. again, most of the players who are ve aware of the stakes here. the idea that a third-party candidate could be anything but a spoiler is outlandish. the question is do you want to be a spoiler? and do you feel that strongly about your program? i don't see that yet, but anything is possible this early. host: democratic caller in jacksonville, florida. caller: good morning.
i would like task the young lady one question. do you believe in right and wrong? the tea party and the republicans represent a man who has cheated on his wife and now it's time to beat her getting mad by playing focus focus. everything the republicans said they were going to do, they have not done anything. everything the president was tryingo get done, they blocked. how can you say you are helping the country when you are doing the exact thing all the people that know about these things say is wrong? guest: the caller is putting his finger on the extent of gridlock in washington now. it's a difficult situation.
we have seen the building and building. i think right now it's very difficult. it's very difficult to see how there's going to be a deal cuts, although everyone assumes there has to be a deal cuts, on raising the debt ceiling. both sides are really dug in. the republicans say, no new taxes. over the weekend you started to see some movement on the part of some senior republicans who suggested -- and i am talking and maybe kournikcornin john mccain who said that they see some possibility for revenue compromises. again, these are senior members of the republican party who more often now than nofind themselves at odds with the
grass roots movement. i think it's a very unpredictable, volatile situation right now in washington and across the country. host: there's a story from abc news looking at the republican contest for president. don they are barnstorming and stumping through states -- guest: it is wishful thinking. is just amazing.
the ron paul parade, i guarantee you. they may end up shaking hands. if they are smart, they will. it is always nice to send the voters of measure of stability, which i think they want to see. you know, these guys are pros. they have to meet on the stages. they have surely met before because jon huntsman was a prominent politician in utah and mitt romney worked in utah. across ballots before. -- they have crossed paths before. shake hands if they do. host: welcome to the program. caller: thank you.
to run fore for k-- president. he goes around and talk about all the jobs that he has created. -- rick perry. thjobs that he's talking about are $7 an hour or $8 an hour. he calls the people illegal aliens. there's no way that's he would let meone dig into texas nances or be investigated. it is laughable. host: so you don't thing he's going to run? we lost her. our states like texas going to be? be dew point guest: tt has been an interesting question this year.
texas is called an atm state, stes where candidates go to raise money. but they generally don't go there to compete because in the recent past it has been reliably republican state. president obama's team wld like him to believe that might be different this year. i used to work for a texas newspaper, so i pay attention to texas politics. i know what the democrats are relying on, the changing demographyf the state. texas is a majority and minority state or very close to being so. the hispanic population is growing exponentially. texas will set more seats in the house in this year's reapportionment than any other states and will gain four congressional seats. at tells you how much is the state's population has grown. most of that growth has been fuelled hispanics, who
generally tend to vote democratic. and s this year, the democrats have recruited an interesting candidate, a conservative democrat, rick sanchez, a former general, a commander in iraq. they're hoping to capitalize on that. i think it is still going to be an uphill battle. i will be surprised if president obama expresses campaign dollars into the texas, but that would be a state to watch. host: kathy kiely has covered every presidential election since 1980. her past jobs include working at the houston post and the arkansas democrat gazette. see also worked as the white house reporter for the new york daily news. she covered congress and national politics for "usa today."
as well as the pittsburgh press. guest: yes, that was my first employer. host: national journal has reported on this integration into florida and how feelings on the governor and in politics slowly and may be influential in reference to the national race. guest: this will be an interesting meeting to watch. one of the things that is really interesting right now is watching some of the new governors and how they are dealing in very and disparate ways with the budget deficit proble that they have. one state has been sent down right now, minnesota, because of a disagreement between the democratic governor and republicans in the legislature over how to meet the gap. i think what you are going to see is a lot of new governor's trying ta different formula. rick scott, elected last year in
florida -- it was a surprise that he won. he won in a narrow race and since then his poll numbers have plummeted. some of that could be personal style, but it coulde reaction to some of the policies he is putting into place. a lot of republican governors are caing for very draconian cuts. knowure they're listeners a number them have called for chges in collective bargaining for public employees. in wisconsin there's a new republican governor. there will be recall elections this summer targeting some of the republican legislators who supported scott walker's changes in collective bargaining and budget cuts. wisconsin is a battleground state. you are seeing the pendulum swing back and forth. some ways i feel sorry for the politicians, because i'd
think the voters -- when you see this kind of movement and this kind of gridlock, that it's -- what it really tells you is there's not a consensus in the country about how to deal with these problems. as a result, you have states like wisconsin and going back and forth between republicans and democrats and wch wayo we want to go. i don't the we as a country have decided this. host: costco, mississippi, peter, republican. oxford, mississippi. caller: may we have a dialogue? guest: we may. mitt romney will be the next president. the reason ishis election was set in stone in the 2010 election. you have to understand mr. john mccain won 22 states which
represented the 173 electoral votes. those same 22 states will gain 179 electoral votes in the next election. eight states that will determine the election in the electoral college. those states are florida. it's impossible for the democrats to win flori. the state has gone totally republican. between the governor and legislature, the state has gone totally republican. you cannot tell -- in north carina, the governor there is a democrat, but pepsi will lose because their numbers are low. virginia has turned republican with their governor. the democrats have the senate, but the rest of the status totally republican. new hampshire has slipped totally in the house and senate even though they have a democratic three-term governor.
in the midwest, wisconsin, you tell me this is it possible for the former dissenter, a democratic liberal, in the last election would have lost that election? michigan has gone totally republican. the house as well. in ohio, the whole thing. indiana is totally republican. 117 electoral votes. you put those together with 179 and that 296 electoral votes that will go to mitt romney, who will be the president. host: let's see what you have to say. guest: he has spoken a lot about the battleground states peer that either -- he spoke a lot about the battleground states.
the formulas set by the number of congressional seats. so there will be a change. that's correct. advantage republicans. 's team wouldama st dispute some of these states. you alluded to the fact that the governor is under water in florida. it's hard to say how much that reflects people's attitudes toward a presidential race. to the extent that it reflects alienation with the votes cast in 2010, i think that is a little advantage obama. north carolina, the democrats are having their convention in charlotte, north carolina, because they see it as a state that is a possibility for them. this is a state where changing demographics are much more diverse than it used be and certainly the democrats will
compete in i think all these states except maybe indiana. host: 1 of art would always wants to know about virginia. guest: that is going to be a battleground state. that's one state where the president will compete. the with the press democrat since lyndon johnson to win at state, since 1964. -- he was the first democrat since lyndon johnson in 1964 to win that state. the president has an advantage there. the larger the population in that section, the more that puts it in place for president obama. host: iowa, dan, democratic line. have you been seeing candidates out and about? caller: 0, yes.
it's pretty sad. it's nothing but politics. whoever does end up getting the big prize is going to be the one that's comes up andries to repeal the 2010 vote by the supreme court, citizens united. that has given corporations control of the vote, control power. they can funneas much money wherever they want. they can tie up anybod in the courtroom because they do have e money. this alone is the reason why we see an ongoing political thing year to year. it does t take a break any more. host: are you getting out to meet any republican candidates
about the issues even though you are a democrat? caller: yes, i work with people that get along with michelle bachmann and stuff like that. it's a corporate game. why would people with millions of dollars wt to run for office andow? host: is there any chance these republicans would get your votes in the general election? caller: if they would repeal citizens united. they said justice thomas and justice scalia should have recused themselves from that vote. you are darned right. people inifficult for the executive and legislative branches to repeal an act of the supreme court. it's impossible. we can amend the constitutioor pass laws that effectively
nullify supreme court decisions, but it's difficult. i think the caller is definitely pointing to one of the biggest changes that will affect the 2012 campaign as opposed to what happens four years ago. that is the citizens united ruling which opens the door for unlimited union and corporate contributions. in ways, what really makes this different is the proliferation of organizations which we cannot see into. we cannot see their books. these are the so-called are title one 2-4's. we just at the close of the second quarter a all the figures are not in from some candidates. some are waiting until their paperwork is due in two weeks by
the federal elections commission. the third quarter closed or rather the second quarter closed on a thursday. some people have commented that there is not as much money flowing into these campaigns as there was at this time four years ago. i think that may be true, but we really don't know. some of these donors could be giving amounts that we don't know who they are, we don't know how much they're giving. there are these entities that are accepting contributions anonymously and they will be -- we have already had one of them, called crossroads, a republican- oriented group, and there's been a democratic-oriented group. we don't have any way of really tracking that money. so it is a big change. how it will affect the race, we don't know.
maybe the most significant change in this election cycle, i would say. host: joss, a republican, cambridge, new york. caller: why is no one talking about ron paul for president? he is the smartest guy, always so right-on. everything that's happening to our economy, he called it years ago. on fox ns i see higetting booed. the guy is a genius. i would send him millions of dollars for his campaign. he would be the greatest president this country has had in a long time. i am curious --everybody is still caught up in this why can 't people get things done in the
government? i wil tell you, they are doing is by design. want to have on world currency and one world government and a one-world religion with the ecumenical movement they have been working on at the united nations. guest: the caller captures ron paul's appeal. his supporters are more enthusiastic and more devoted than the supporters of any other candidate as a whole. they are just -- ron paul is a cult figure. he has all the characteristics. that means he has an incredibly devoted group of supporters, but they are small group of supporters, they are not the majority. ron paul's run for president the third time, and desist. he has never really managed to crack the double digits. i will say this, though, ron
paul's issues are now at the forefront of the national data. so he can consider that a big victory. -- is issues are now at the forefront of the national agenda. the need to rein in government, other such issues as well are at the top of the republican agenda now. he affected the trajectory. host: do you see any republican candidates try to align themselves with him to get if he does not have a clear path to getting the republican nomination? might michelle bachmann try to get some of that passion for its supporters in her campaign? guest: absolutely. you raise an interesting question of whether ron paul ever endorsed?
he did not in the last campaign. if needed, it would be a very powerful king. although he may not have the biggest group of supporters, but they are the most enthusiastic. he wins all the straw polls because his supporters go in and flood the room. that is an indication of their devotion. that is important in politics. we will see. i am sure that everybody would like to have his endorsement. ron pa is a purist. he is absolutely true to his principles. he does not compromise. good luck to them trying to get that endorsement. host: there's a twitter question -- guest: too early to tell. the only way to measure advantage at this stage is name identification and money. in that respect, mitt romney has the advantage. however, if we were looking at
the field four years ago, we would have said the same thing about hillary clinton and she did not win the nomination. it's very unpredictable. one of the things we did one of the reasons i like presidential litics is that it's not chemistry. you cannot know exactly what you are goi tget. this is psychology and biology and that is what makes it's a drama to watch. host: flint, michigan, dale on our independent line. caller: could you comment on any of the candidates addressing were looking at the working homeless and the working poor? guest: that is probably a trick question because you don't hear a lot of candidates talking about that. sadly, the way our political system works, people who are disenfranchised tend not to get their issues dealt with. that is why young people ar
urged to vote. i think any candidate would say they want to eliminate poverty in america. if you ask them. but are they making it a top agenda item, no. i think every candidate in this cycle will say that creating jobs is a priority. to the extent that helps people who are out of work or don't have a home, they would serve to be on those candidates radar screen. as a consistently, i hate to sound cynical, but that's the way politics works. politicians tend to cater to people votes and those who give money. host: we have three views of the president's message perhaps over the next couple months as he has given initial speeches. they indicated how he plans to presage his run for reelection. give us a sense of what is ground game might be in the battlegroundtates and what direction he will likely take?
guest: president obama was famous in his 2008 campaign for having created a tremendous grassroots movement. he is -- he started out as a community organizer and i think he brought some of that savvy to the campaign. he had a very savvy internet operation, also, which helped to ignite that grass-roots effort. i thinkhe challenge for him this time is that he's not running as an outsider. he is the president of the united states. he has tried to get the same level of enthusiasm, which is more difficult. you tend to see in politics, people tend to leapfrog. i would say the republicans were behind the curve. they would admit that, in terms of harnessing social network technology to build grass-roots networks. ihink they have caught up there.
so now the president has defined what is his new edge. he has a big one in the bullet pulpits of the white house, certainly. can he get the same level of enthusiasm and have the same number boots on the ground, which is a reflection of enthusiasm? that will be a big question for him in 2012. host: there's an article looking at how teachers are seeing the success of the white house campaign and whether teachers will give obama their support. and did, there's one teacher n sure to ge our support to president obama because she doesn't feel he has supported teachers. how does that change him may be appealing to the murrah middle- of-the-road people? guest: he must appeal to the
middle-of-the-road. the liberals and progressives will support him. elections are won and lost the nter in the united states. on the lasthe w time. he has to find a way to duplicate that. he's not going to win by as big a margin. if he wants to win, he must appeal to people in the center. host: democratic caller in michigan. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. good morning to the editor as well. i am ok with labels. i am a quintessential barack obama voter. i am an african-american from a big city. i do have some college education. i want to say that because i am extremely impressed with jon huntsman. one attributes he has is the man
speaks fluent mandarin chinese. i find that impressive especially going into the 21st century, deep into it. we will need to calibrate that relationship. but barack obama will be our next president. going back to the days of abraham lincoln and the civil war, and roosevelts in the second world war and even john kennedy against khrushchev and getting the missiles out of cuba, but barack obama is e name that killed osama bin laden. this is the boogeyman that terrorized our country for a number decades all the way back to the late 1980's and 1993 with the bombings. barack obama, the young senator from illinois came in and he was the one to find him and kill him. if that is an ad not gone well, barack obama would be a second coming of jimmy carter with the
iran crisis that occurred with the hostages. host: let's hear what you have to say about that. guest: it's interesting that donald is impressed by jon huntsman. he is an interesting cracter. he hopes that he can have that kind of crossover appeal. president obama was impressed enough by him to make him ambassador to china. weill see how that affects the republican primary. it's interesting what the caller said about the killing of osama bin laden. i think that was a foreign policy triumph for president obama, but the question is how much will that resonates in 2012? what you are seeing -- and by the president obama would say -- this is an election about t economy, not about foreign policy. it will not be unless we have a
crisis of some kind. people are worrying about if we are spending the money which should be spending -- we should be spending,iven the problems on the home front. i do not know how much credihe will get for that [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> tomorrow morning, kenneth vogel discusses fundraising by a 2012 presidential candidates in the national party's. then a discussion of the criminal background checks systems. we will speak.
then paul light talks about the productivity challenges facing the federal government. "washington journal every day beginning at 7:00 eastern on c- span. a look ahead here on cnn. the dalai lama speaks on non- violence in the 21st century. later, a look at how social media can be used as a tool to promote civic engagement. the senate was scheduled to take a week -- a week-long break for the july 4 holiday, and majority leader reid decided to convene
the senate tomorrow. military operations in libya starting at 2:00 p.m. at eastern, with a vote on the resolution forward at 5:00. the house is out for the july 4 holiday. the house returns to -- the senate returns for legislative business on wednesday. also expected, the flood insurance program. the house is live on c-span, and the senate on c-span2. the dalai lama spoke about non- violence in the 21st century to a crowd of more than 10,000 at the university of alabama. he was joined by helen prejean
and vincent harding. this is an hour and a half. >> i would suggest to you that these individuals from their cloistered positions affected more positive change in their lives than many who have devoted their careers the public service in a traditional manner. my first inkling of an answer came while reading sister helen as she described a day in 1980 that would change her life. she was listening to sister maria as she lectured on her community, and she was urging
direct action with the poor. within the year, sister helen had moved from a lakefront suburb into the st. thomas housing project in new orleans, where she began her work on death row. it was about this experience that she would later write, " better i decide to try to help san real hurting people or nine or one than to be overwhelmed and withdraw and nothing, or write an academic paper on the problem of evil." i would suggest we know and respect sister helen now because she avoided that academic paper and embraced instead attend a real hurting people, a number that has grown steadily and shows no signs of slowing. because we know how deeply doctor kean weighed the words he
spoke in public, we are impressed to learn that he turned to professor harding to craft a speech that outlined to the warsition in vietnam. how many of us know the following words of professor harding, which described a conversation he had with a young man, articulate and intelligent, who was bent on surviving the tough neighborhood in boston where he had a grown-up who this young man told professor harding that what he needed were living, human signposts to help him find his way, and professor harding's response is emblematic, i believe, of his life. i had never forgotten these words, prof. harding rights, and these concessions seemed cast ask us not only to be signposts,
but introduce students to other living signs who may be able to help them find a way. they need to see and know the lives of women and men who provide intimations of human grandeur. to all of his students who number in the thousands, prof. harding has served as such a sign post, and i would suggest that our stage today is brimming with such signposts. i first saw his holiness in 1979 when i was a young graduate student at the university of virginia. since then, i have read his books, attended his teachings, and generally tried to understand the great compassion and generosity eliminate his work in our world. you can open many of his books
randomly and find passages that clarify and eliminate. here is a passage from a recent collection -- nonviolence is not limited to an absence of violence. for it is a matter of an active attitude, motivated by the wish to do others could. it is equivalent to altruism. altruism, which defines all our panelists, is a form of nonviolence. it is a formula both clear and profound, and these are the two qualities, clarity and profundity, that i most associate with his holiness. our panelists agree -- happiness depends on developing the kind of warm heart that will recognize human suffering wherever we might find, and on developing the capacity to
declare this suffering intolerable. of course, the spirit finds this suffering intolerable rises from the spirit of nonviolence. our three analysts have all devoted their lives to this principle, and i am anxious, as i know you are, to hear their advice on how we might incorporate some of this in our own lives. it is a great honor to present to you once again professor vincent harding, sister helen prejean, and his holiness, the 14th dalai lama. [applause] now, a word about how we intend operate here today in this conversation. i have spoken to sister helen
and vincent earlier, and we will allow our panelists to talk for two or three minutes about their own personal path to the path of non-violence, and the particular role that nonviolence plays in what they do in the world. we will then follow that up with questions and comments, and then at the and we will have a one minute or so summary from each of the panelists, and i am certain we will all be greatly enlightened by that time. we would like to start, of course, with his holiness. if you could talk for a couple of minutes about your own personal path 29 plot -- nonviolence, and then sister helen and vincent harding. >> good morning, everybody.
>> good morning. >> indeed, i am really happy, the first time to come to the state, this city. so this morning -- of course i get up early in the morning -- so i got up at dawn, i heard some birds singing. very beautiful, very beautiful. very happy. thank you. and then the opportunity to share my own experience on non- violence.
al depends onrvivo the rest of the committee, so there must be some force and our motions to bring us together. that is compassion. secondly, the way our lives start come from our mother, and not like some other species, the mother lays down their eggs, the
eggs are then left, no need for a motherhouse care. so they are helpless. we are let that -- we are like that. had the young age, their survival entirely depends on others for their care, their survival depends on the affection or carrying by the mother. so our life starts that way. because of greed and some other
however, emotion -- now according to medical scientists, constant anger, fear, very bad for our health. a compassionate mind, a very good for our health. so that confirms our basic nature is more gentleness, it is very well with our body. the difficult emotions cannot go well with our bottom.
-- with our body. although there are different levels of action -- generally i think violence and nonviolence his action. every human action must come through motivation. so any action, motivated by compassion, is non violence. any action, horrible, a physical , out of anger, out of hatred, out of jealousy, negative feeling, that .ssentially is violence pictu
so in order to promote nonviolence, we have do -- we should make awareness, the compassionate mind is very good for the society, a very good for the family come very good for individuals. jealousy, suspicion, fear, hatred, anger -- these are very bad for the society and also on individuals. so that is my reason to promote nonviolence -- out of motivation. -- finished.
>> thank you. [applause] awakiening to nonviolence, what got the call soul force, try to create something that is new, not to be passive -- a catholic nun, grew up with a great mom and dad a, i was not just an egg that was placed in a nest, latin rouge, louisiana, and to give our life over to god was prized and her family, and i became a nun. i became a nun, and the spirit
trolley out of what i was trying to follow the ways of jesus was a spirit quality that separated the war. everybody was trying to get to heaven. one day they can have a great crown in heaven. i was separated. we became nuns and closet ourselves, i was separated from the world, and living out and the suburbs in new orleans -- and living in the suburbs, my father had been a successful lawyer. in new orleans, 10 major housing projects in the inner city of struggling african-american people, and i had only known african-american people growing up as a our servants. i did not even know their last names of the woman who worked in
the house, the man who worked in the yard. the awakening, the spiritual awakening happened, through coming to understand who jesus was, and actually to the god revealed in the hebron test of of the burning bush, that one of the first revelations in the hebrew scriptures, the burning question of moses, i had heard the cry of my people. i realized that here i was in and of world, here was the inner city, and i woke up. and the awakening was such a grace. and grateful that i woke up, and when you talked about, the motivation to act, the consciousness -- when my conscious as changed i realized i do not even know this people. i moved, active, and lived in the presence of african-american people in the st. thomas housing
project who became my teachers. once you get in this river, and doctor harding loves to read about it -- one day coming out of the adult learning center, i realized the miserable state of education for poor african-american people in public schools. people were coming into the learning centers, and could not read a third grade -- what is going to happen to these people, and why had i been so privileged to why was i so blessed? i began to accept, and coming out one day, some of the said, you want to write a letter to someone on death row in louisiana? i did not know anything about the death of a, and i never dreamed they would kill a person because there had been a hiatus on that for over 20 years. i wrote a letter, and he wrote
back. his name was captured, and he changed my life forever, because two and half years later i am in the killing chamber when the state of louisiana electric cheated him to deaf -- when the state of louisiana electrocuted him to deathbe. i said, no, after, i do not know what it will do to me, but he will not die you will not die. you are not want to die without a loving face. i said i will be the face of christ for you.
they killed him and from my eyes. i left the execution chamber. it was in the middle of the night in louisiana. vomited. i had never seen a human being killed. i realized that moment, it was in the dark, people are never want to see this. when the state kills, it is a secret rituals lined walls, and people cannot hear the last words, they cannot see it, so that are caught -- he deserves to die. for that moment, i must tell the story to awaken people, to bring them close to this. that brings us to the other side, why was this man killed? what crime had he done? and his brother two
innocent teenage kids, kill thed them, shot them in the back of the head. when i knew the crime, my impulse was to reach out to the family, and i held back because they are not going to want to see me, and i was wrong about that. it was a big mistake i made. when i met them, the father of the boy, david, who had been killed, said to me, sister, you cannot believe that pressure on us to be for the death penalty, and i had nobody to talk to. where have you been?
[unintelligible] [applause] anyway, he said, where have you been? he invited me to come and pray with 10, and through this man, he is the hero of "dead man walking." his father shared his inner journey of first trying to go to the place, because everybody was saying that, wanting to see that it dead, and he said, but i did not like the way it made me feel when i went to that place of hatred and bitterness. then i said to myself," they killed our sons, but i am not
want to let them kill me. i want to do what jesus said, face to go on the road of forgiveness. around this country, telling that story, it is very important in this journey when we deal with our outrage that we feel when innocent people have been ripped from life, and corn to stand in the eye out range, feel the outrage, but then a look past and try to see -- [no audio]
the third witness in place is where families and their mothers have stood with their hands against the glass to watch as the state killed their child. and the question is, where does it take us? where does the imitation of violence take us as a society? that is my little opening. >> thank you, sister helen. [applause] >> we owe this member of this panel -- i am going to take the liberty that age and allows of being disobedient.
because i want to start off not with my assignment of telling about my path to nonviolence, but i want to start off by giving great thanks for the path that sister helen took to bring us to this place. [laughter] -- [applause] when i heard a story about how long he has been working on make this a possibility, i was deeply grateful, and i knew that i needed to testify to that. so, sidney, forgive me for being an elderly disobedient one, but that is how i needed to start. >> thank you.
>> to go to my assignment, i want to say that my path to the way of non-violence was a path that was suggested by his holiness. it was a path that was the ball -- that was developed first by the love of a single mother, a recently divorced mother who insisted on let me know that i was loved, that she expected great things of me, and to make great sacrifices for me. i see that as being the central to the starting of my own path. my path was also lined with
teachers, and public school -- in public school who literally loved me, who cared about me, who demanded great things of me, and to push me when i was not ready to know that i could go forward. my pathway to non-violence was also opened up by a little confrontation of church people in new york, church people he took me into their arms and taught me what the new and encouraged me to explore the way of faith, the way of the
teachings of jesus, the ways of love. my path was deeply affected by the fact that in my early 20's, i was drafted into the army of the united states of america. and it was the first time that i was away from mother, from church, from home community, for any significant period of time. and in that experience of solitude, i began to explore more fully the teachings of, especially, the new testament, reading, and all the time the
basic training gives you to be doing nothing. i took the nothing time and tried to make something out of it by reading the things that people had told me about, but that i had never studied myself. and in the process of that reading, i came in touch with this magnificent person, jesus of nazareth, and i began topeka very deeply attracted " i began to be very deeply attracted to him and to his life and what that life meant. and it was in the course of that basic training time when i was studying and learning about jesus of nazareth that i was also at the same moment really enjoying basic training, because i was an outdoor kind of person, i love to run, i love to be
around exercise practiced, and i surprised myself by really enjoying learning how to fire a rifle and learning how to fire it with great accuracy. it was one morning, down on my belly firing the rifle at the targets hitting it rather well, in july and myself, that i almost heard a voice saying to me, you are enjoying best. do you think that is why the army is paying all this money, so that you can enjoy this? no, you are being taught how to kill a man without him being able to see you.
what does your jesus have to do with that? i was being taught how to use a bayonets, that a sharp knife at the end of a rifle that was used in those days. i was praying, have to immediately slashed out another human being's bowels without him even knowing what was happening to him. in strange ways, in that moment, i heard this song that i have been singing it in my church schools for many years. jesus loves all little children. a voice came to me, that is
dead. jesus loves the little children, all of the children and the world. when they grow ok'd, and when your government tells you -- when they grow up and when your government tells you they are your enemies, but when they grow up, you will cut their guts out because your government says that is what you need to do. from that moment on, i began wrestling with myself. wrestling with the meaning of this jesus. wrestling with the idea that i was kidding myself over to that kind of -- i was giving myself over to that kind of madness. from that point, i became a conscientious objector. [applause]
it was in that process after i got out of the army that i meant a church group that seemed to take jesus seriously on this matter of loving the enemy. i became a part of the mennonite churches in this country. it was in the course of that that my late wife and i went south to work with martin luther king jr. and a wonderful young people of the student nonviolent coordinating committee. they invited me into saying essentially, you have begun to think about this matter of nonviolence already. help us teach it, at practice it, work with us here in the south. that was the beginning of my
pathway. i met many magnificent human beings, who without any great study, and the great teaching, came from the depth of their hearts to know they could never create a new american society if they allowed hatred and anger to even though they were understandably filled with the right to be angry. they decided following the teachings of king that they wanted a new society where hatred and anger would not rule our way. that group of people took me in
and that became part of that movement for a new society and i am still on that path, and now coming close to my 80th year. [applause] >> thank you very much, professor. you mentioned something in your last comments come a professor, that i would like to follow up on and have all of our panelist respond to it. his holiness will recognize this colgate -- this quotation. tibetans typically say, my enemy, my teacher. it is another way to save it is important that we learn how to love our enemies. what i would like to hear all of you comment on, how does an engagement with the opposing
perspectives actually cause us to strengthen our practice of non-violence? >> would you repeat that question? >> absolutely. >> tibetans have a saying, my enemy, my teacher. as long as we are around people that we love and adore, we'll learn no lessons. it is only when we are around the enemy that we get to watch hatred and anger work. at that point, we can attack it and understand how to manage it. in each of your experiences, how does an engagement with "the enemy" strength in your practice of non-violence? >> determination [inaudible]
this sort of conviction comes from christianity. all of the same potential to bring such wonderful people. one of my covenants is emotion
of religious harmony. [applause] to know the value of potential of that teaching, that wage changes in harmony can derive. just not a scholar way, the enemy and is your best teacher. one scholar expressed that.
further, we follow this practice. the enemy -- the concept of the enemy is based on a person's attitude. this person's attitude toward me will be nice and helpful, so we call them friends. -- it creates some danger for my life. we call academy.
-- we call them an enemy. not on the basis of -- when you are young, we have no idea, this is my enemy, this is my friend. now there are two levels of compassion. one is oriented out of attitude. that kind of compassion is mainly -- this person is helpful for me.
that kind of compassion is a biological factor. it is oriented out of action. another level of compassion, not oriented in another's attitude or action, but people themselves. no differences. this group is an enemy, this group is a friend. on the basic level of human being, the same. they're both -- they both want happiness, they both have the right to achieve that. from that understanding,
regardless of their attitudes that kind of compassion is secondary compassion. you need effort to get compassion and attitude toward your enemy. the opposite is hatred and anger. patience, tolerance, forgiveness. in order to practice forgiveness, tolerance, you need someone [inaudible] [laughter]
christian practitioners, there is no possibility to practice forgiveness to jesus christ. no possibility. with my mother, no. [laughter] all these people to create people for you, this is testing my practice. i need to practice tolerance and forgiveness. in order to practice that, you need opportunity. that opportunity is by your
enemy. from that viewpoint, very and yount to practice can learn only from the help of your enemy. that is why your enemy is your best teacher. [applause] >> sister helen -- excuse me, go ahead, your holiness. >> i want to make clear. some people -- if you really offer forgiveness to your enemy, regardless of their bad attitude, that means -- we have
to make a distinction. after auction, -- they deserve our love, of our compassion, our sense of concern. you have to make action to stop their wrongdoing. a central concern for that person. if you have a genuine sense of concern for that person, you have to make an effort to stop their wrongdoing.
ultimately, their wrongdoing ultimately harms. try to stop their wrongdoing. after a fight, we must keep our compassion. [applause] these individuals, we respect them. we deliberately tried to
promote our sense of well-being and compassion. as far as their action is concerned, sometimes we criticize. any possibility -- since we oppose their action, they consider me as a troublemaker. sometimes i jokingly tell people, in order to justify their accusations, i have to have a little fun. [applause] this practice, an immense benefit to yourself, very
important. the practice of compassion, some people feel something holy, something good. it is totally wrong. >> thank you, your holiness. sister helen, keeping on this theme of my enemy, my teacher, reading the by death of innocence and dead man walking, you have a kind of reverse example but i would like to hear you talk about. when he started dealing with the victims' families, you became the enemy because you had been an advocate for the murderer. i would like to hear you talk
about how you handled that particular position in which you found yourself as being the enemy of the bereaved family. >> this is a very interesting current and the river to be talking about the enemy as teacher because when i first visited a man on death row who had done this unspeakable murder, i did not know tennessee. -- i did not know anything. when i was walking into the prison for the first time, the guards were very matter-of-fact, kind of harsh. there was an instinct because they have the ones -- i suddenly realized. the guards whose job is to work in this prison and carry out the execution are not the enemy.
the same thing with the victim's family. instinctively, the opposition and was coming from the victims. because i did not reach out to them as i should have in the very beginning, harsh letters to the editor were written about me, victims' families for getting on television. she does not care about the victims. i would try to go inside myself. i used the image of my fingers moving on a piece of cloth to see if there were any terrorisars. i knew they were right because i had not reached out to them right away. what happened inside me was that, i need to be there for them. if they reject me or an angry at me -- because they are put on a
tremendous seesaw in society. the loss that you have had of your loved ones, what we are going to do for you in order to honor your dad loved ones is that we are going to kill the one who killed your child and you get to watch and that is how we will honor you. they are very much placed on this seesaw. all of these cultural currents that say, if you really love your child, you want to see the enemy dead. we will do that for you. anybody who says, i am not for the death penalty, -- i am acting defensively because they are opposed to me. it was the gilts because i had not reached out. when you put yourself out there to go to them, when i went to
visit, when i walked in his shoes, when i heard his story, when i went to these groups, up murder victims' families groups, they were all talking about. all of them are talking about how everybody it leaves them alone because they do not know what to do with their pain. they are being shunned in a way. one man lost his daughter. he said, a sister, if you want to see a room into out, just let me boxed into its. everybody knows my daughter was killed and people do not know what to say to people in great pain. it was just one in fact after i got to know lloyd, to start a group to help murder victims'
families for people to accompany them in their pain. it is one act. i did not change everything. i knew my relationship with the family, who had allowed me to come into their lives, needed to be intact. i needed to be continued to be faithful in my friendship with them. and then to start a group. when i am talking to young people, they say, when are we going to pick up this whole world? the minute you put your hand on the rope and began to pull, whoever is hurting, the light energy and compassion flows through us. that is one response. [applause]
>> i have always been struck by longevity of all types. you are a living example of that. when i was able to hear you speak about that yesterday, about traveling down to the south in 1958 with a religious group composed of >> and whites -- blacks and whites and when i think about your initial engagement with dr. king in 1958, you met him in montgomery, alabama. i fast forward had nine years when he gets in touch with you and says, he wants to come out against the vietnam war with a major speech in riverside church
in new york city. i am struck by the fact that you had seen racism of all sorts, you had seen bigotry, you had been confronted with violence of every imaginable stripe, and to hear you speak, to hear your message, you are clearly one of the most gentle people i have never confronted. what i would like for you to share with us is how you did that. how did you confront that kind of hatred? it was highly organized hatred. it had the power of the government behind it at times. just as the victims' families are out there alone, you, too,
had been out there alone. how did you stop yourself from hardening into the easy solution of hatred? >> that is not a question that one leaps into too quickly or easily. i think it goes back to the initial statement that i was making. i was never in any of these situations of danger, of fear. i was never sensing that i was alone.
for one thing, i was coming at someone deeply fortified by the love i had received all my life. i was also coming especially in the southern situations that i was a part of, i was surrounded by other people who were loving and concerned and convinced that we had to do something to bring about to a new society. we did not have time to allow hatred and to take its place in our presence because we were
busy dreaming this. this is what our imagination and what our energy had to be given to. at some time, 50 years after our struggle, we would one day be in a place that had never dreamed that it would house the dali lama. that it would have a black students and faculty. not enough of either, but still some of both. [applause] what i am saying, our minds and hearts were too full of the dream of the possibility of what this country could be, what this
south could be, what'll we could be together, hatred would only push us off that ford path. -- forward path. i could not afford, that was not what i was there for. i knew there was something else that i was there for. i knew, as i said, that i was not alone. i knew that the ancestors were with me. i knew that the spirit was with me. all sorts of magnificent powers that i cannot even name were with me. i was trying to be involved in a work for our building of our humanity. i am deeply convinced now that
when we are involved and commit ourselves to the building of humanity, all kinds of forces that we never dreamed could be available to us become available and we are able to do much more than we ever dreamed we would be able to do, including not giving into hatred. [applause] >> thank you. >> as we hear this, seeing how our american society works, nobody ever makes a statement, even when they kill somebody in the killing chamber, we are killing an enemy tonight. there are euphemisms, different words that they use. we are doing justice.
when we look at the struggle with the enemy and our society, -- in our society. they say things like, they're coming to get our jobs. these people are the criminal element. fear is what is underneath so much of our society. [applause] with this added elements, so much of our news about each other we get from television. the more people look at television, the more hours they look at tv, the more afraid we are. could we talk about fear as the basis? >> absolutely. i would love to hear his
holiness's comment on how fear of the unknowns sometimes causes us to embrace of violence. >> there are two types of fear. one fear is with the reasons. when i was in some area in india where the malaria mosquito -- out of fear, there were questions. necessary.
emotional system is such. more self-centered attitude here, more fear, more anxiety, more stress. >> they need you to project your voice. >> i think this should be sufficient. there are two levels of fear. one fear is with reasons. when a mad dog comes ready to bite, if you are still meditating compassion, it is rather foolish. [laughter] another kind of fear is
protection. when you talk of fear, it is a bottled emotion. there are many other emotions. fehr -- fear -- selfish is part of our nature. without that, we would be like a
robot. we cannot survive. therefore, we are selfish. wise selfish is much better than foolish selfish. it brings more fear. more suspicion. this unnecessary source of suspicion, it is based on the distressed, selfishness. -- this trust, selfishness.
brotherhood, sisterhood. everybody wants happiness. i am one of them. the more the rest of the community is healthy, i get more happiness. there is no way to gain maximum benefit to oneself for getting others. -- forgetting others. a sense of human brother or sister. or a stranger, you never know, but still a human being.
if you show affection, normally, they will receive it. society, culture, more individual. it is a key factor. too much competition, more stress and anxiety.
as you mentioned, the television is showing those things which are more negative. murder, these bad things. these become news. there are good things. serving others out of genuine compassion. these are news. we take for granted. there is some impact on our minds.
eventually, people get a feeling. our basic nature it is negative. some people described as aggressiveness. not necessarily a description of basic human nature, i do not think so. >> thank you. i am trying to keep watch on the time. [applause] we have less than 10 minutes left. by way of making a closing statement, i would very much like to hear the panel respond
to the following question. recently, with the killing of osama bin laden, there is been a great debate in this country about the efficacy of violence. i do not need to your you talk about bin laden. you can, if he would like. -- if you would like great from the perspective of a practitioner of non-violence, i think it is very helpful to have it explained to us logically why a violence does not work as a long-term solution to a problem. everyone understands the impetus to use of violence to stop something in the short run. but if i could hear each of you talk about how violence is not an efficient means of solving a problem, i think that would
bring clarity to a lot of us who are trying to adopt a non- violent way. >> when i hear the example that you started out with, the bin laden murder, what came to my mind when i first heard about that was another situation of terrorism that i was very close to. i was deeply involved in the movement that took place in birmingham, alabama, in 1963.
it helped to open up to the world what was wrong in our society and what needed to be made rights, especially along the lines of white supremacy and the oppression of people of color. you have -- you may remember that weeks after the march on washington of august 1963, in september, 1963, the 16th street baptist church had a bomb placed
at its base and a bomb went off. it was a terrorist act. it resulted in the death of four young sunday school girls and the injury to a good many people in the church. what i remember is is a conversation that i had with two of the most magnificent teachers of nonviolence that i knew in that moment. diane nash was one of them. at the time, she was married to another great practitioner, james. diane told me some time after
that terrorist explosion that she and jim were in another state visiting day another freedom worker when they got the news over television that the bombing had taken place and those children had been killed. as two of the deepest believers in the wave of non-violence, they nevertheless immediately said, up we have got to get back to birmingham and we have got to find out who did that terrible work and we have got to make sure that they never are able to do anything like that again. they had great understandable,
and justifiable anger and the move and them was for revenge and retribution. as they sat with their friends thinking about that action, they began to rethink that initial response. they said to each other, we can that terrible path of violence. that is not true we are. that is not legal -- that is not what we believe in. we will be on faithful to ourselves and to all of the people who are part of our movement. we must think in another way
about called to respond to. we must respond, but we must find another way. what they decided was that they would return to alabama, but they would devote all of their time and attention and skill to the work that was just beginning. a voting registration campaign was going on. they said, we decided that if we could bring black people into the electorate to change those who are running that states, we can change the atmosphere,
change the setting, so that the possibility of such terrorism would be reduced. they decided to go to selma to work on voter registration. as you know, eventually, that marvelous movements ended up with that march from selma to montgomery. they spent two years working on the response to the death of the children. what came out of it was in the opening of another level of democracy in this country.
the death of the children lead not to the death of more people, but to the opening of new life, new possibilities for this country. [applause] >> thank you very much, a professor. sister helen? >> the answer to fear of the enemy is for us to meet each other. i believe the more we can connect, build bridges, have different kinds of people meeting, having breakfast together, crossing the boundaries, these individual -- and did -- invisible boundaries that have been set up in these
culture. the university students, and you are in the environment of being at a university. you are there with your team. but to are the others that are different -- but who are the others that are different from us? the more we can meet each other, we will positively promote building communities of peace. [applause] >> your holiness, if you have any final thoughts on the ways in which violence perpetuates violence. >> basically, the very nature of violence is unpredictable. once you involve violence, it
often becomes out of control. more damage. so i believe, at the turn of the century, the number of people who killed through violence, over 200 million. that kind of action, the exploitation, it lays down the
seat of hatred. -- seed of hatred. this century, it should be a century of dialogue. meet and talk. if possible, meet him. what are his reasons? i am quite sure there could be
some openness. i visited on a few occasions in northern ireland, and one time they invited me. the organized the victims together. in one room. when i entered that room, very tense. each person's face, full of sadness and anger. then we start some sort of conversation.
after one hour or two hours, we had a meal together. the atmosphere completely changed. the next time i visited, i met with some of them. completely changed. already defeated, but carried a death sentence in the name of revenge or something. at that time, i was pretty young.
prevent further problems, but defeated people. what is that? saddam hussein, a possible death sentence. i think i was in japan or australia or somewhere. now defeated. completely demoralized. the object is to feel compassion, not hate. not anger. they carry a movement to -- i
oppose the death sentence. as a result of their wrongdoing. no opportunity to see their wrongdoing. this eliminates the person, not the action.
[applause] a real effective measure to seize -- cease the action, deal with the person, listen, and then talk. the control of that destructive action. otherwise, if we handle not properly, after two years, then osama bin laden.
the change must take place here, not a physical elimination. it is another sort of problem. regarding the bin laden case, 100 people with different opinions. it is difficult to say. some people are overjoyed. some people say, it is quite normal. some people say, this is wrong. i am one of them. [applause]
>> that was absolutely wonderful. it exceeded even my highest expectations. in my humble opinion, i believe we have just borne witness to what i am certain is an historic conversation. let me thank once again our guests. [applause] >> thank you. [applause] >> the senate was scheduled to take a weeklong break for the july 4 holiday. majority leader read decided to have senators returned tomorrow. on the floor, the military
operations in libya starting at 2:00 with a vote on moving the resolution part -- for were at 5:00. the house is out for the july 4 holiday. they return to legislative business at 2:00 on wednesday. the main work will be on defense spending for fiscal year 2012. also expected, the flood insurance program. the house is live on c-span. >> it used to be that we did not release transcripts. now we release them within a half an hour. it used to be that the audio recordings were released at the end of the term. now they are released at the end of every week. we are moving in a particular direction. cameras present all sorts of challenges. >> right now